Men rape. Yeah. You fuckin heard me. MEN RAPE. Men fucking rape. Men rape women and girls. Subject verb object. Strangely enough, in discussions of rape, the subject seems to have suddenly disappeared from the equation.
It took me a long time to really realize that rape can’t really happen on the incredibly grandiose scale that it does without a lot of damned men raping lots of women. It doesn’t matter that a male just happens to be your father, brother, son, uncle, boyfriend, whatever. They can rape, and many of them are intent on raping women and girls. Coming to this realization when it comes to the men in my life is a real struggle, and it’s incredibly hard to grasp and accept. But grasp and accept I will. Because if I don’t recognize that many, if not most, men rape or are intent to rape then I am doing a real disservice to women and girls all around me who have been the victims of rape.
When we know that roughly 6 out of 10 men are willing to rape a woman if said males know they can get away with it (I remember distinctly a study once done at a Rhode Island college or institution showing that 60% of males polled said they would rape a woman if they knew they could get away with it)*, then why the hell are some of us feminists so hell-bent on defending men? Why do some of us respond by saying that there’s a small number of men that don’t, or would not, rape? And what is that barely 40% of men who have not or would not rape (on account of not being caught for the act, FFS) doing or not doing about their male friends, family, and coworkers raping women?:
http://witchywoo.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/much-is-being-made-of/#comments
So take 10 men or boys in a room. At least 6 of those men or boys would rape a woman if they knew they could get away with it. Let’s let that marinade a little, shall we? How many men do you walk by in public each day? How many men do you have in your family? How many boyfriends? Spouses? How many do you think have raped or will rape a woman or girl in their lifetime? We always talk about how many women get raped (as if by some invisible, intangible fuckin force) but let’s just get down to the root of the problem here: how many men rape? Because if at least 1 out of 4 women have been or will be victims of rape at least once in their lifetime before they even hit their middle ages, that’s a lot of damned men out there raping women. Nearly 80% of rapes are committed by men or boys that the female victim is very acquainted with or knows well. That means that there’s just boatloads of boyfriends, fathers, uncles, sons, brothers, husbands, and male relatives raping women and girls in homes, in clubs, in cars, in porn studios, etc.
I would like to know why people ask us to be nice to men, to defend the “innocent” men, to not be suspicious of men, when quite a good number of them do this shit to us:
http://littoralmermaid.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/this-needs-to-end-now/
http://www.womanist-musings.com/2008/07/colluders-justify-rape-of-11-year-old.html
http://www.womensspace.org/phpBB2/2008/07/21/women-terrorized-under-fundamentalism/
I could provide yet another hundred more examples of the atrocities committed every damned day by men against women and girls.
So I ask, again: how can someone look a woman in the face, a woman who has every valid reason to be suspicious of men, and tell her that her decision or compulsion to be suspicious of men is a form of “discrimination”?
Phemisaurus brilliantly makes fun of this “reverse discrimination” idea here.
So, fellow feminists, women’s liberationists, womanists. Look around you. How many men?
*this is a conservative estimate, 60%. Because even on anonymous surveys people believe themselves to be “better” than they actually are.
I remember Sparks brilliant ‘disembodied roaming penises’ by which, ya know, women just go around getting THEMSELVES raped while they’re drunk…..Because that just seems to be the theory some people have. Women are raped – but there ain’t no men involved, definitely not, certainly not my Nigel.
http://sparklematrix.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/can-we-please-get-off-this-loop-please/
Men don’t really need defending, cos I think they’re doing a good job of it themselves already. But it’s always the same – we are meant to talk about the oppression of women as though it is happening from some invisible force somewhere that is totally unconnected with the actions of any real people.
I’d just like to note that the number of men willing to rape a woman has diminished of late. The study you cite was conducted in the early ’80s, I believe. A more recent one, which I won’t link to (sorry, but it always take a good part of an hour to come up with the correct Google search to find it), says that now 3 out of 10 men say they’re willing to rape if they can get away with it.
And a fun fact, if you use the word “rape”, maybe 1 out of 10 men say they’ll do it. If you merely call it “forcing a woman to have sex”, you get the 3 out of 10 figure. Ignorant bastards.
Sorry I meant men.
“I’d just like to note that the number of men willing to rape a woman has diminished of late. The study you cite was conducted in the early ’80s, I believe. A more recent one, which I won’t link to (sorry, but it always take a good part of an hour to come up with the correct Google search to find it), says that now 3 out of 10 men say they’re willing to rape if they can get away with it.”
Keshmeshi, Hi and welcome to my blog. I have to ask though: since when did the number of men willing to ADMIT that they would rape a woman accurately reflects the number who are actually willing to rape? I’ve already explained in the blog post that when people take surveys they make themselves out to be better people than they actually are. So, that means that if 3 out of 10 said they would “force a woman to have sex with them” that means there’s a lot more men out of that 10 that would actually rape a woman.
Why the belief that things are getting better since the 80s? What with the normalization of porn and increasingly violent and sadistic action and horror films, it’s still the same misogynist crap, if not worse now. And besides, most rapists don’t or will not admit that what they do to women is “rape.” They’ll say, “oh it was consensual” or “it was sex, she’s lying.”
Yes, Polly, I remember that awesome post by Sparks. She hits the nail on the head with that one.
Powerful post, Lara.
Lara, I emailed you.
Just to be clear, the comments above are not by me, and I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t refer to that person as “Apostate.” I will request her to change her name so this confusion does not happen again.
Yes, Apostate, I got your email, thank you for letting me know about this. I am sorry you have been having to deal with this woman taking over your identity in the blogosphere.
Everything is fine now, I am going to delete the comments by the “apostatepakistanigirl” as the comments are abusive and she was trying to imitate you.
Heart had a study last year that half of all Danish people thought a woman deserved to be raped if she flirted with a man.
http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2007/04/25/one-of-two-norwegian-men-believe-flirtatious-women-are-to-blame-if-they-are-raped/
Also, the most disheartening thing is that with the proliferation of mainstream violent porn, the perceptions of what is appropiate has changed. Teenagers don’t think oral sex counts as having sex anymore, grabbing a girl’s hair is “normal”, rough sex play is “normal”, they don’t recognize sexual violence even after it’s pointed out, etc, etc.
It isn’t surprizing that less boys would say they’d rape, if that is true, when the words themselves have become meaningless AND the actions those words represent have become “normal”. Alternet had an article about frat parties with themes such as “sex for execs”. The girls who don’t participate in those types of activities report being treated like “freaks” and I can see that same attitude in the young college women I know.
Oh, and can I have a linky, please?
Ahh, I’ll go check that link out, thanks for letting me know.
Dear goddess, how did I forget to link to you? Sheesh, I must be tired…I am putting you in my blogroll
We both know the number one thing evol feminazis want is to raise stats and get more traffic!
I am not sure if you are aware but Nigel means little black boy. To have that linked to a post about how evil men are and that they rape is problematic. As we know black men are socially constructed as rapists. Since so many black men have lost their lives for “supposedly raping” white women I find the connection to this post offensive.
There was an amnesty international study over here that showed 1 out 3 people thought that women who flirt ‘ask’ to be raped.
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=16618
Hi Renee, and welcome to my blog. Umm, I had NO CLUE that “Nigel” is a reference to little black boys, at all. I have never heard of that in my life. A lot of radical feminists use the term since it is a quaint and old-fashioned name for a guy (specifically one who’s stereotyped to be a “nice guy”). Where did you hear that “Nigel” is a reference to little black boys? I am curious. I just googled “Nigel” and “black boy” together and I got nothing that comes up indicating that. Are you in the U.S. Renee? Perhaps the slang term exists as it does in the UK, or in another country, but not in the U.S.?
Well you do have a point Renee:
The boy’s name Nigel \n(i)-gel\ is pronounced NYE-jel. It is of Irish and Gaelic origin, and its meaning is “champion”. Variant of Niall. Also possibly (Latin) “black”. The name traveled well. Niall in Ireland and Scotland became Njal in Scandinavia, was latinized to Nigellus in Normandy, then became Nigel in England. Niguel (ni-GEL) is a Spanish variant. Actor Nigel Havers.
http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Nigel
However it looks from the above like there are two possible sources – one is celtic and does not come from the latin root ‘black’ at all. And I don’t think Lara would intentionally use racist language. Personally I’d say that an archaic meaning that people are unaware of is very unlikely to influence them. I think Nigel is just used because it sounds like a bit of a daft, geeky name.
It’s actually an acronym for NIcest Guy that Ever Lived.
Wow! I didn’t know that Theener, thanks for letting me know.
Such a fitting acronym.
Yes, Polly, I know that “Nig-” or “Neg” in Latin means “black” (as in the color and the race). But, like you said, I don’t think the use of the name “Nigel” in this context, or in most other contexts, implies anything racial at all. Nigel really is a geeky old-fashioned name, eh?
It isn’t surprizing that less boys would say they’d rape, if that is true, when the words themselves have become meaningless AND the actions those words represent have become “normal”.
I would like to know that answer to the question, “Would you have sex with a woman who you knew did not want to have sex with you, even if she said yes?”
Because that is how many rapists there are in the world. And I’m willing to bet that over 80% of men would answer yes to that question.
Word, allecto.
“Subject verb object” reminds me how Catharine MacKinnon said it about pornography, BTW (“in porn, men fuck women, subject verb object” or something like that).
how can someone look a woman in the face, a woman who has every valid reason to be suspicious of men, and tell her that her decision or compulsion to be suspicious of men is a form of “discrimination”?
Because most men think that “Rape is rare”, that it’s just “these other few bad men (‘monsters from another planet’)” doing it. Thus, when you’re revealing the facts, you’re accused of being a “man-hater”.
How many men?
I’d say most of ‘em, especially the ones who use porn. We live within a pornified world where rape is ‘normal’, where sexual coercion is commonplace, ’cause, for most men, “being pushy” with a woman in bed has been taught to them through their socialization to the patriarchy.
They can rape, and many of them are intent on raping women and girls. Coming to this realization when it comes to the men in my life is a real struggle, and it’s incredibly hard to grasp and accept. But grasp and accept I will. Because if I don’t recognize that many, if not most, men rape or are intent to rape then I am doing a real disservice to women and girls all around me who have been the victims of rape.
I agree, Lara. And grasping, realizing this is difficult for me too. . . It is unsettling. . .
Truth has to be told. Great post!
(I feel so bad that it took me this long to comment here!)
In teen movies like “Superbad” (I think, I could be wrong) one of the gags to get the guy laid often involves getting a girl so drunk that she’ll consent to anything or can’t say no.
I remember that in high school, when we had rape awareness education, people were just *shocked* to find out that having sex with someone who’s that intoxicated is a crime.
Excellent point LM
[...] Here, for example, we read [...]
“How many men?
I’d say most of ‘em, especially the ones who use porn. We live within a pornified world where rape is ‘normal’, where sexual coercion is commonplace, ’cause, for most men, “being pushy” with a woman in bed has been taught to them through their socialization to the patriarchy.”
Thanks for the comment Maggie. It’s really true, there is a real sexualization/romanticization of conquest and hierarchy in sexual relationships in our culture. It’s as if sex can’t be “exciting” or “fun” without some element of coercion or manipulation (the support of BDSM as a “deviant” sexual behavior or as “exciting” is a good example of this cultural tendency). Very disturbing when you think about it.
Hey LM, welcome to the blog!
[...] says men rape and she’s [...]
Thanks for the comment Maggie.
You’re very welcome, Lara.
It’s really true, there is a real sexualization/romanticization of conquest and hierarchy in sexual relationships in our culture. It’s as if sex can’t be “exciting” or “fun” without some element of coercion or manipulation (the support of BDSM as a “deviant” sexual behavior or as “exciting” is a good example of this cultural tendency). Very disturbing when you think about it.
Yep. And that’s so unfortunate.
Oh perhaps your friend sanefeminist should look at this Lara….(and perhaps they can tell me how to spot which men are rapists and which aren’t when they’ve finished).
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FCR/is_1_38/ai_n6073196
Or this….
Most studies about rape on campuses report that 15 to 30 percent of college women report having been raped by the time of college graduation (Koss & Oros, 1982; Miller & Marshall, 1987; Muehlenhard & Linton, 1987; Sandberg, Jackson, & Petretic Jackson, 1987). In fact, sexual aggression and/or rape in dating situations among college students is even more common. A reported two out of three college women have experienced unwanted sexual contact, including forced sexual intercourse, while with a date (Muehlenhard & Linton, 1987). The Rape Fact Sheet from the Communicable Disease Center states that “In a national survey 27.7% of college women reported a sexual experience since the age of fourteen that met the legal definition of rape or attempted rape, and 7.7% of college men reported perpetrating aggressive behavior which met the legal definition of rape.” (Koss, Gidycz, & Wisniewski, 1987
http://www.k-state.edu/counseling/topics/relationships/rape.html
I would ask though (despite my earlier comments about trashing people on t’net, every rule has an exception) if sane feminist can provide actual PROOF that they’re sane. You know, from a doctor or something……
Hah, thank you so much for that Polly. The links are excellent. It’s incredible how excessively hostile this “sanefeminist” is towards me. What’s with her suspicion of women and what women claim are their experiences?
I’ve told sanefeminist at her blog to refer to your links and information.
Actually Lara, I reckon ’sanefeminist’ is probably a man. I ran the text through one of those gender analysis engines.
“Actually Lara, I reckon ’sanefeminist’ is probably a man. I ran the text through one of those gender analysis engines.”
Yup, sounds very MRA style to me, sorta came out in the comments…
You’re right…now that I am looking at the writing style. It’s very masculine in that it is made up of aggressive rants and instructions:
“get over yourself” is something he threw at me often. Very typical of a man to think that any woman who stands for the humanity of women is self-centered or selfish. Oh, I just looked now and he keeps insulting me by calling me “Dearie.” This is clearly a guy.
“I’m still waiting for proof; legitimate data of any kind would help.
Waiting.”
Yup, he needs me to provide “data” to “prove” that I have been fucking abused by fucking males. Male asshole. :/
One more thing, the subtitle for his blog says “rescuing feminism from extremists.” But of course, a MAN would need to come and tell us stoopid wiminz how to really be feminists.
All I have to say is, thanks sanefeminist, for giving me more publicity.
I think the real point here Lara is that rape/sexual assault is the MAIN issue for feminism. Truly. In the UK we have a conviction rate of 5.6% for reported rapes. And of course the vast majority never even get reported. That sounds very UN sane to me.
As long as any and all women can be raped, the rest of the patriarchy follows.
And if you look at the black community you will see that a larger percentage commit crimes than don’t. So racial profiling is okay with you then?
Jimmy_D said:
“And if you look at the black community you will see that a larger percentage commit crimes than don’t. So racial profiling is okay with you then?”
Huh? Where do you get this information? You want to show me some actual concrete evidence that shows that black people commit more crimes than, I dunno, white people?
That’s the last bit of racist bullshit I am tolerating from you on this blog. Have you read the section on here that says “To Men”? If you did, you wouldn’t post such an idiotic and racist comment.